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 Climate bill gets scientists' backing, despite doubts 

Climate bill gets scientists' backing, despite doubts

14 May, 2009 11:07 AM
AUSTRALIA'S leading climate scientists believe the Federal Government is not doing enough to cut greenhouse emissions. But they want its climate legislation quickly passed in Parliament anyway.

An Age survey of scientists working with the Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found six out of nine believe the emissions trading scheme - due to be introduced in the lower house today - is flawed, but better than nothing.

The most common reasoning is that it means emissions must stop increasing and start to decrease, albeit gradually.

One scientist said: "It is important that legislation be approved now, as any delay sends a signal to business and the community that it is OK to procrastinate."

Another said: "To knock it back entirely will not achieve anything - incrementalism is a part of this game."

All but one scientist who responded said the Government's proposed 2020 emissions targets - a cut between 5 and 25 per cent below 2000 levels - were not ambitious enough for Australia to play its part in avoiding climate change.

They were pessimistic about political efforts to limit global warming, predicting a rise due to greenhouse emissions of about 4 degrees this century.

The panel said this would expose hundreds of millions of people to water stress, trigger sea level rises that would swamp coastal areas and cause the extinction of thousands of species.

There is heated debate in the environmental movement whether it would be better to back the Government's proposals or reject them as too weak.

The Australian Conservation Foundation and WWF Australia have been criticised by their members for backing the Government after it raised the possibility of a 25 per cent emissions cut.

It was one of a handful of changes announced last week, including delaying the scheme until July 2011 and increasing compensation for industry.

The scheme still allows an unlimited number of carbon permits to be bought overseas.

The changes seem unlikely to be enough to win passage through the Senate.

The Coalition said the scheme would cost thousands of jobs without environmental benefit.

The Greens will not support a 2020 target that could end up being less than 25 per cent.

The panel's lead authors and review editors responded to The Age survey on condition of anonymity.

Nine answered a question on whether the legislation should pass without amendment: six said yes, one was undecided and two said it was fatally flawed.

Asked what Australia's minimum role should be in a deal to limit warming to 2 degrees - the trigger point for unpredictable climate change - the scientists nominated an average 2020 emissions cut of 30 per cent.

Other majority views included that Labor is better on climate change than the Coalition, but has gone backwards since the 2007 federal election.

Most said public investment in carbon capture and storage is justified, but it must be matched by an increase in spending on renewable energy and energy efficiency.

The survey was made before the Government announced $2.4 billion for clean-coal projects and $1.5 billion for solar power plants in the budget.

The coal miners' union, the CFMEU, meets climate change secretary Greg Combet today to ask for help for gassy coal mines.

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If the human-induced global warming theory is shown to be wrong, all of these "eminent" scientists are out of a job, so it is hardly surprising that they are taking this position.

Politics now drives science because if they are not saying what the government wants to hear they get their funding cut.

Hardly surprising that they back Kev's scheme. Even though it will wreck half our economy, they still get their dollars.

Posted by Bob, 15/05/2009 4:43:19 AM
Bob, if the scientists are right, you still don't care because you will be dead. I bet you also don't think smoking causes lung cancer. I expect you do not buy insurance because you have no doubt that it is worth the the money because a disaster won't ever happen to you anyway.
Posted by two bob, 15/05/2009 11:36:16 AM
Solar power stations are a waste of money as solar is requires massive subsidies compared to wind, gethermal and biomass.

BP have almost given up on it until developments can dramatically reduce the cost per KWH. http://pepei.pennnet.com/display_article/362176/6/ARTCL/none /none/1/BP-writes-off-solar-power-as-a-viable-energy-source/

The most economic solutions are going to be: Geothermal - hot rocks, biomass and wind.

Carbon capture will be most econnomical on farm soils as little transportation is required, annual excess carbon is available in crop waste which can be converted to stable biochar. Not that difficult and not that costly compared to alternative carbon storage technologies. And it increases farm income and soil moisture capacity. Pretty much a no brainer.

Solar maybe, but only when technological advances can reduce the costs to be competitive with the other renewable energy technolgies.

Posted by terry, 15/05/2009 11:55:53 AM
Global warming religious believers warn of catastrophes to humankind if greenhouse gases are not curtailed.

Meanwhile anti-farming and anti-industry green policies are killing thousands of people.

These policies are also putting people out of work and out of their homes and causing malnutrition, sickness and death even in rich countries like the USA where 30,000 people a year die from the flu because they are probably jobless, homeless and there is no public health system to nurse them back to health.

Maybe it is time the "eminent scientists" who have cashed in on popular fears and political support find out what it is like to be jobless and homeless and exposed to the elements.

Maybe those who still have jobs and vote will join with those that don't and elect politicians who care for people more than the environment, cute furry animals and trees.

Posted by Common Cents, 15/05/2009 1:15:51 PM
Last weekend, five thousand people on the beach in Melbourne formed the words: "Climate change — our future is in your hands http://www.theage.com.au/environment/crowd-spells-out-feelin g-about-climate-change-20090517-b7dc.html

Little do these people on the beach know they were actually forming the words: 'Carbon tax me!" Wait until they get the bill for a whole raft of new taxes derived from carbon credits. Do people really believe industry and service providers will not pass on these new carbon imposts? Energy and transportation costs are expected to rise by between 30%-40%. Transportation costs affect food, manufacturing and services. The carbon taxes will be bigger than the GST impost on Australian's household budgets. It will cripple them. They have no idea what's coming. How on earth can people not realize this Carbon thing means - TAX.

PS Notice how Global Warming is now being called Climate Change. I smell a rat

Posted by Weatherman, 18/05/2009 6:06:27 AM
Hey common cents - do you actually have any substantiated facts in your arsenal? 30,000 people die from flu in the US every year probably because they have no job - probably because they are old and/or have been made redundent by polluting industries offshoring to India and China to exploit the less fortunate. Climate Change is the cathcry now as it became very clear in the debate that many anti AGW commentators were smart enough to fool the uneducated and simple minded that they could easily discredit global warming if there was ever a decrease in temperature. Human induced climate change could overly warm the planet or could force an ice age, look at the oceanic thermal distribution of the thermo haline concerns of many scientists. I really do not know what you all are so afraid of. How will the economy be crippled exactly, where are the facts? So you have to pay for pollution, known as an externality in economic terms - about time. How about we get the farmers to pay for the siltation of waterways when they overgraze their land and cause erosion? What about the chemicals they use or the land clearing? How about landholders pay for all the illegal dams they have put in that have stolen the water from the environment and the wider public? Why not get the landholders to pay for the true cost of farming and subsidies for the raod and rail networks that most Australians never use, or the subsidised health and council services? Have a look at the treasury modelling to see what the impacts are going to be and the up to 120% compensation offered to some sectors. Where is the billions of dollars in funding going to go, the clean coal money? I am sure some of you are "probably" being paid to write these posts on behalf of the oil companies and if not you are pawns to the big polluters and you are doing yourself and your descendents a disservice. How long are the fossil fuels going to last? They will run out one day and then thanks to the small minded we will have no alternatives and a stuffed planet. Well done guys, your miserable misguided attitude will be your undoing, just don't make it mine. User pays is here and it is going to stay.
Posted by the lorax, 19/05/2009 9:22:59 AM
And another thing, climate change is not a religion, it is a scientific hypothesis that is constantly being tested, based in fact and scientific uncertainty; anti AGW is a religion based on ego, self interest, unsubstantiated claims, false hope, rhetoric, heresay, emotion and an undefendable belief. I never hear supporters of climate change theory call it a religion, only the anti AGW, because religion excuses the worst acts of humanity and it suits your cause to try and discredit findings to suppoort your own vested interests that you cannot, have not and will not defend on a scientific basis.
Posted by the lorax, 19/05/2009 9:54:28 AM
Yes, Climate Change is a religion, the old pagan religion. Let me describe the 'theology' of it. First, there is the false goddess Mother Nature against whom we have 'sinned' and who will bring Her wrath upon us unless we do our penance and pay our carbon tax. And if we don't pay soon, worse will follow. It is dressed up, of course, in modern scientific terminology and looks scientifically respectable, at least enough to fool the masses. And if any should raise a doubt, he is to be shouted down with the words "You must be ignorant! All the 'real' scientists believe the official dogma, who are you to dissent?" You must be in the pay of some company etc. Well, I am a scientist that dares to question the official dogma and surprise, surprise I am not in the pay of any oil company. I just happen to have dared to actually investigate the question myself.
Posted by diathyky, 9/06/2009 7:19:24 AM
All the talk about science, as if it were an easy matter to prove AGW, just as easy as it is prove (I should say 'confirm' as that is more correct term) Newton's first law. The truth is that it is not like that, but the media who are not scientists and the government who cannot tell the difference between real science and pseudo science are hoodwinked and so will the farmers be if they believe the official dogma. ETS will destroy Australia and its primary producers. But the Government does not really care, because look at all the damage the farmers have done and anyway we can get along just fine without them. What about food, you ask? We will just import it! What! Use the produce of farmers from other countries? Yes, of course, they are so much better at land management than our own. Or else the people in the cities can just eat McDonalds! Farmers (and I am not one, but I recognise the crucial importance to this nation of the rural sector) should stand up for themselves and vigorously oppose the ETS.

By the way, in the above article the IPCC is called 'Nobel Prize winning'. It may be a little misleading since, as far as I know, it did not get that Nobel Prize for science.

Posted by diathyky, 9/06/2009 9:28:23 AM

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